"Please let this land!"(Noel BBCS General Discussion)

OniSuika · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:42 pm

Last I checked this topic was for talking about Noel, not flamewar practice. Keep it civil or take it to misc guys.

Chain Revolver · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:23 pm

Folks we are finally generating some damn discussion about the game so leave the insults out of it ok? Last warning.

And I would say that Noel's drive is like a different moveset. But that's all. She gets access to a few new moves while with Valk, not only do his moves change, but his movement options and overall pressure game change as well. To say that all you see is "go into wolf form~cross screen~ X combo" could be turned against you. I could say that when I fight a Noel, all I see is "combo starter~memorized combo X". See how childish and ignorant that sounds?

Now I know I said that she's easy because her combos are easy, but like was said earlier, you don't see combos that often in high level play. At least no advanced ones due to those requiring resources that are not always available. But Noel's combos require nothing but a combo starter to land. THAT'S IT. She only needs heat for distortion finishers when it comes to combos. Not only that, but out of all of the combos I've seen for Noel in extend, all of them are about as difficult to do as the average character's BnB. Easy to play? Perhaps not as much as some others.

One dimensional character? Yes. Even Ragna has to be careful of his spacing and spend heat to keep his pressure from being reactive. Otherwise once his opponent figures out his patterns, he has a hard time hitting anyone. Now Noel can have these same problems due to having worse mixup than Ragna, but proportionately, Ragna has to work harder for his damage which is more costly once he lands those hits.

But it's not just ease of combos. Tsubaki has easy combos but she gets crap damage off of the easy ones. Her more damaging ones are harder but require placement, setups, and resources that she does not always have available.

I just see Noel as having a very linear playstyle unlike she did in CT.

hughjazz44 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Noel's playstyle is a lot more dynamic now than it was back in CT. Noel in CT was like fighting underwater. Now she's the speedy character she was supposed to be. Not to mention she now has both midscreen and corner game (in CT she didn't offer much in corners). And in her current state, she's more balanced and has more varied combos than she did in CS2. People bitched hardcore about Noel in CS2, and I'll admit there was something to it. But now that they've toned her down, killed some of her links, altered Drive physics and proration, nerfed Silencer and effectively killed Haida loops, buffed some of her unused moves and changed properties for more varied combos, and made her play a LOT differently than before, people STILL bitch about the EXACT SAME THINGS that they bitched about in CS2.

People who aren't Noel mains are quick to bitch about things they know nothing about. Noel plays completely different with each update. A fact that no one, other than Noel mains, can appreciate. All they do is say, "Oh, I just got my ass handed to me by 4D. SHENANIGANS!!!".

Chain. Go pick Noel and take it to Ranked. Play for a while. Then pop in CT and play for a while. Then try to tell me that Noel is better in CT.

Chain Revolver · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:32 pm

Hmm. Ok. I see your point. But Noel was always fast. Even back in CT. She did get a corner game in CS that much is true too. And she could also do decent damage even back in CT. She just relied on the haida loop for it as opposed to now in CS.

I don't see how they nerfed silencer though. It seems to do a decent amount of damage now as opposed to CT where it was mainly just a tool for extending combos. Now it actually has a use outside of combos. But it could be just me who knows.

And her being more balanced is debatable.

hughjazz44 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:05 am

Chain Revolver wrote:

I don't see how they nerfed silencer though. It seems to do a decent amount of damage now as opposed to CT where it was mainly just a tool for extending combos. Now it actually has a use outside of combos. But it could be just me who knows.

And her being more balanced is debatable.

Silencer prorates with each set of hits, and not each individual hit (iirc). So a 22BBBBBBBBC combo starter, then another 22BBBBBBBBC midcombo counts as 2 Silencers, not 18. But if you do 22BC, then another 22BC (i.e. Haida loop), the proration is the same, even though the first instance had multiple B hits. And everything you do after the 2nd Silencer set is worthless. Basically you should never do 2 sets of Silencer in any combo.

And as for her balance, she prorates a LOT more on 2D (Probably biggest complaint), and more on all her other D starters, too. Her old corner BnB can't use multiple 2D hits (too much proration) or Spring Raid (without Fatal Counter), and some instances omit the 6D link due to less untechable time. Bloom Trigger can be air-teched in longer combos which screws up her Oki. Her old corner BnB only nets about 3k. If you want 4k or more, you need Heat for a finisher, Fatal Counter, or your back to the wall to add the Assault Through link.

In CS2, you could honestly float with about 4 combos. 2 with Drive starters, 2 with normals, and each of those 2 divided whether they were standing or crouching. With special cancels removed, Drive proration increased, Drive physics altered, and numerous other little changes, you really need about 10. About 8 of those combo turn into Drive, and anytime anyone sees Chain Revolver they all think it's the exact same thing. Like saying everyone from China looks alike. Different Drive links in different combos people. Just because the Drive strings are scripted and follow a flow, doesn't mean it's all the same. And in CSEX, with the altered Drive physics, her most basic Drive BnB is character specific. I have to alter links or alter timing even on characters that are similarly sized (not just Carl, Tager, or Rachel). I really haven't even played enough to learn all the unique links, yet. In CS2, there was one set of links that was guaranteed to work on the entire cast, 100% of the time. The higher damaging ones were more specific, of course.

Lucalibur · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:08 am

Haku+Men wrote:

Hey, word of advice, don't have a wang measuring contest over who can be bad as the harder character. Focus on what actually makes someone skilled at fighting games, and not the least important thing in them. Combos.
Guess what, Ragna is a simple character, but Nineball would still probably rape everyone on this forum six ways to sunday because he actually has fundamentals. It doesn't mean he's any less skilled than Ivysaur, a Carl main who would rape you all, it just means Carl has more tricks and is harder to pick up. In the end, comparing difficulty in learning a character, and feeling good because yours is 'harder' is stupid beyond belief, but a lot of people here, and even on Dustloop do it.

This is full of truth and approve everything that was said in here.

Also, there is a guy called Nineball? Is he a armored core player by any chance?

Haku+Men · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:59 am

Lucalibur wrote:

Haku+Men wrote:

Hey, word of advice, don't have a wang measuring contest over who can be bad as the harder character. Focus on what actually makes someone skilled at fighting games, and not the least important thing in them. Combos.
Guess what, Ragna is a simple character, but Nineball would still probably rape everyone on this forum six ways to sunday because he actually has fundamentals. It doesn't mean he's any less skilled than Ivysaur, a Carl main who would rape you all, it just means Carl has more tricks and is harder to pick up. In the end, comparing difficulty in learning a character, and feeling good because yours is 'harder' is stupid beyond belief, but a lot of people here, and even on Dustloop do it.

This is full of truth and approve everything that was said in here.

Also, there is a guy called Nineball? Is he a armored core player by any chance?

Nineball_Infinte (I don't recall exactly what, but there is an intentional typo in his name as I recall) is a somewhat famour PSN Ragna, because he's incredibly good. No idea if he plays AC though.

Lucalibur · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:03 am

Haku+Men wrote:

Lucalibur wrote:

Haku+Men wrote:

Hey, word of advice, don't have a wang measuring contest over who can be bad as the harder character. Focus on what actually makes someone skilled at fighting games, and not the least important thing in them. Combos.
Guess what, Ragna is a simple character, but Nineball would still probably rape everyone on this forum six ways to sunday because he actually has fundamentals. It doesn't mean he's any less skilled than Ivysaur, a Carl main who would rape you all, it just means Carl has more tricks and is harder to pick up. In the end, comparing difficulty in learning a character, and feeling good because yours is 'harder' is stupid beyond belief, but a lot of people here, and even on Dustloop do it.

This is full of truth and approve everything that was said in here.

Also, there is a guy called Nineball? Is he a armored core player by any chance?

Nineball_Infinte (I don't recall exactly what, but there is an intentional typo in his name as I recall) is a somewhat famour PSN Ragna, because he's incredibly good. No idea if he plays AC though.

I see. It's just that "Nineball" is the name of the "cover boy" mecha of the Armored Core franchise, but maybe it's just my inner fanboy talking here.

Sorry for taking this off topic, just wanted to check.

.:TM:. · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:32 am

hughjazz44 wrote:

Noel's playstyle is a lot more dynamic now than it was back in CT. Noel in CT was like fighting underwater. Now she's the speedy character she was supposed to be. Not to mention she now has both midscreen and corner game (in CT she didn't offer much in corners). And in her current state, she's more balanced and has more varied combos than she did in CS2. People bitched hardcore about Noel in CS2, and I'll admit there was something to it. But now that they've toned her down, killed some of her links, altered Drive physics and proration, nerfed Silencer and effectively killed Haida loops, buffed some of her unused moves and changed properties for more varied combos, and made her play a LOT differently than before, people STILL bitch about the EXACT SAME THINGS that they bitched about in CS2.

People who aren't Noel mains are quick to bitch about things they know nothing about. Noel plays completely different with each update. A fact that no one, other than Noel mains, can appreciate. All they do is say, "Oh, I just got my ass handed to me by 4D. SHENANIGANS!!!".

Chain. Go pick Noel and take it to Ranked. Play for a while. Then pop in CT and play for a while. Then try to tell me that Noel is better in CT.

See, the problem is you turn a blind eye to anything said against Noel and just acredit it to some non noel player just complaining. Nobody here was actually complaining that Noel is broken because she's not, only that she's a one dimensional character. 4D really isn't as scary as people make out to be but all the Noels I see seem to think so.

You ain't automatically right just because you're a Noel main, just saying.

hughjazz44 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:29 pm

.:TM:. wrote:

Nobody here was actually complaining that Noel is broken because she's not, only that she's a one dimensional character.

One dimensional?

She's not 1D, she's 4D.

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.......*cricket, cricket*

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"Please let this land!"(Noel BBCS General Discussion)

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