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 Post subject: Re: Lust Sin's Lyrics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:08 am 
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Main: Jin Kisaragi
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My theory, at least what I've had for a while:

Jin before becoming a psycho was actually a person who seeked to do good. Reason why he was student council president, model student and a great soldier. However those achievements were always very shallow for him, he never felt he was doing something truly good for others, helping in an important way.

From childhood he actually got along with both Ragna and Saya at the beginning, but something must have happened between him and Saya, something particular from this timeline, my guess is that Saya knew she was something special or Jin's power of Order was different this timeline, perhaps more powerful than any of his past incarnations (because if it was the same as other loops why would Rachel take interest in him when Hakumen is around?), this led to a certain "betrayal" from Saya making Jin "hate" her and cling to Ragna, the family situation got worse by then.

Even after the church incident Jin held his brothers dearly, due to Terumi eating his memories he no longer remembered the church incident exactly, but the feelings inside remained: Ragna ditched him, Saya didn't get along and the duodecim looked down on him, with this he began in a circle of self depreciation and fear from others, which translates into his cold personality to avoid people but also his willingness to give his best at everything in order to be of help, somehow, do the better thing with so much damage from him in his past.

This is why he asks Saya if she will come back. The extreme of the things he, more than despise, sees as failures of how things have gone wrong in his life can be fixed, if he can actually become someone who can earn something to be happy and do something for others.


In the darkness of the wasteland,
... the vastness surrounds you
Saya, will you return to me?


Nothing in sight, everything seems wrong, no hope, can things be fixed?

It was Sanctuary...
... with no hope of ever escaping,
What remains is still more precious now.


His life was happy, good times, bad times, he couldn't change things when they were ruined, but he holds dear the good memories even after these were stained by dark times.

But from where you are
... you can see a thousand wolds below...
... a thousand different suns everyday...


Saya is special, she can see, understand things nobody else can, something Jin will never hope to understand himself and much less feel, that's why they had grown distant.

I can feel you near,
... helping me to see beyond the walls,
Please, strengthen my resolve.


Saya has given him her legacy: Yukianesa, the sword reminds him of her, gives him a newfound power, Jin feels this, believes this gift will give him a chance and hopes the blade will accompany him in his quest.

For I... I must choose the path before me
As protector, sworn and true,
Steadfastly watching o'er the world,
Fate has death me the jokers and kings,
A hand I cannot refuse.
Ready to fight.
Forever... Alone


His mission is not clear, he wants to do what's right, but doesn't find an answer, all he can do is see the harm in the world, being weak and powerless to do anything to solve it, but he knows he must do something, he has done too much harm in the past and knows esccaping is not an option, he has the resolve and knows that for all his faults he will not be helped in this ordeal, this is his fight and his alone.

There are places I've been to
... but no one I know there
Ikaruga left its vicious mark


Over and over he sees guilt, but Ikaruga is what sent everything straight to hell. We must remember it was after the Ikaruga war that Jin lost it. Not only Ikaruga was a bloody war, it was a complete setup by Terumi, Jin not only stained his hands and caused suffering, the reason he believed in to do so; a greater good was non existent, Jin realized all he did was a simple slaughter.

I see legions of soldiers
... who've lost all sense of purpose
... While relentless danger pins them down


He has almost lost his will, he sees others without a true goal, just living until pain consumes then and he is one more now.

I must take a stand if
... there is to be another day
I must give them hope to believe


A faint idea and hope stands in him, that he must guide them, show them a porpuse a belief, since he realized the emptyness of life he must seek a dream or objective to move on and save others that have fallen like him.

Everything that's passed
... and all before me now
... leads to what I've become...


Pretty much his ideas and convictions are made from the pain of every experience, he wants to do something to help people so they won't have to experience what he had: the guilt of his own mistakes and the lose of a porpuse.

For I... I must choose the path before me
As protector, sworn and true,
Steadfastly watching o'er the world,
Fate has death me the jokers and kings,
A hand I cannot refuse.
Ready to fight.
Forever... Alone


Same as the last time.

Who I am has become a mystery...
But what I do will live on as legendary.


He doesn't know what has happened to him, where his resolve went, why he had hopes in the first place. His will has shattered, his ideals vanished, he no longer cares about anything, he doesn't understand anything, he can't fight anymore. Even he himself can't understand what has become of him without porpuse, yet he is claimed as hero by people, but nobody understands that his achievements are empty, he is no hero, just a tool, a weak man that only hurt others in his life and still nobody can see the truth.

Join with me today,
We can make a difference to the world,
... to People in the streets everywhere


This is Yukianesa talking, this is Saya's legacy. The sword, she can give Jin power, the strength to do justice, a light of hope for Jin who has foresaken everything after Ikaruga.

When we fight as one
there exists no foe we can't defeat.
Come take up the cause and fight


More convincing words from Yukianesa, she is luring Jin or better said; she is inviting him to a test, a mission that if he can accomplish he will become strong enough to change the world no matter the odds or the opponent.

Fight beside Jin Kisaragi...
The protector, sworn and true,
Steadfastly watching o'er the world.
Strong within the hand of fate
Our Honor WILL prevail
Destined to fight...
Forever as one....


This time Yukianesa says this, she will be Jin's weapon, Jin a hero for the world, who can watch over its people, with the power to whistand anything. Both will go on, they have a mission and a hope to restore balance and order to make a better place, but they must do it together.


In conclusion:

Yukianesa is not an evil entity per se and Saya didn't give it to Jin to mess up his life. Yukianesa is a test that Jin must surpass, an incredebly hard task, but would Jin succeed and he will gain power beyond anything. The sword makes Jin unstable by amplifying his emotions, reason why Jin's chaotic mind is like that, pain suffering, guilt and inferiority are all increased to extreme levels. For that reason Jin's power of Order is weak, Order and chaos are opposites, one cannot exist where the other resides despite they need each other, and since Jin power is Order his mind corrupted by his fate simply blocks his own power. Yukianesa is, however, needed, it holds the key to Jin's power, the true strength that can change the world. Jin is the antibody to destruction, a hero, he wants to save others not to feel himself better but to actually do something to help people. However the task of controlling Yukianesa and his own experience has grown too much for him to handle and so he has foresaken his ideals and given himself to his obsessions.

However Jin is overcoming this, he is growing into the hero Saya hoped. Yukianesa is not meant to restrict Jin, it is meant to lead Jin to his true power, but only if Jin has found his path and ideals in a road that is easily to get derailed from, when that happens Jin's mind collapses and his power is blocked, that is why when Ikaruga war was over Jin changed; Yukianesa's test was still going but Jin couldn't handle it and his emotions went astray, his Power of Order and love for his brother made a mix that leads to his twisted reactions towards Ragna, should he love his brother or despise and destroy the Black Beast, theat to the world? And also what made him despise Noel too, he didn't know but more than seeing Saya he could feel she was also a threat to the world, and in the end it was right, Noel is Kusanagi so his hatred for her was at full, but he no longer cared to do something about it or try to live on with it like when they were at the academy.

This is also the reason why Jin can't simply get rid of Yukianesa and pick up another sword. He has to get over this in order to be the true hero he always aspired to be for the world and only with a strong mind he will accomplish it.

Something that also depends on Jin's mental state is how strong he is: while chasing Ragna he is weaker than Noel and Tsubaki (who even herself is shocked she could defeat Jin), I doubt any of those two could take a whole army by themselves (Mu aside), while Jin did so in Ikaruga and only in 2 days. It was a setup, sure, but Terumi stated several times that his power of Order was what made him the perfect candidate to strike Ikaruga, the power was convenient for him to easily take down the country and take whatever he needed from there, and I seriously doubt a whole nation of ninjas is made entirely of chumps. When he lost it after the war his power was cut since discord invaded his mind and hence order weakened. Ragna said Yukianesa was using him, but by that moment Jin's obsession with Ragna was stronger than ever, when that happened Yukianesa gave up on Jin and refused to work with him anymore, reason why Jin couldn't even unsheath the sword. However when he could get his head straight when facing Tsubaki and his mind was made up for once in a long time he not only regained the trust of Saya's legacy, his power increased dramatically, he could fend off Tsubaki who had beaten him earlier, he could pinpoint Phantom in mid battle, destroy the field, track down Terumi and kick his ass forcing him to flee, with Yuuki Terumi even admitting that if they had continued he would have lost. For Hazama to admit that so right away, not be shocked, not use his BlazBlue and just run it must be a pretty solid fact that Jin holds immense power.

This is also why Mu acknowledged him as a threat as big as Hakumen. Despite that Hakumen being at just 30&-40% of his power, he was strong enough to corner Ragna easily at 20% of his own power in CT until Ragna used the BlazBlue, in that game Ragna without his trinket could easily destroy Jin.

This however remains incomplete, reason why Jubei has taken him with him and why Rachel as well has placed some faith in him, regardless that aside Tsubaki, Jin never had a friend or nobody, and with Tsubaki gone mad he is pretty much on his own, but since he is capable of changing the world for best others have begun to count on him. At first he didn't want to do anything because his ideas were all destroyed by his experiences and gave himself to his obsessions, but now has someone to save and has finally returned to believe and aim to do what he believes it's right.

So here is what I think in terms of power:

Perfect Order Jin (if he and Yukianesa can synchronize as Saya hopes, full power of Order)
Sane Jin (Pre Ikaruga and post fight with Tsubaki, partial power of Order)
Psycho Jin (After Ikaruga, with his mind astray, minimun power of Order)


Perfect Order Jin >= Idea Engine Ragna > Sane Jin > Terumi (BlazBlue Active) > BlazBlue Ragna > Terumi> Noel > Tsubaki > Psycho Jin

Also we have to remember that is not power to fight alone what the Power of Order gives, it also gives the power to deflect and destroy phenomena intervention, the same actions that have messed up the world. In other words, would his power of Order be fully active Jin would be practically immune to fate itself, that is why he can bring order to the world, he will not be manipulated and can bring his justice to the planet.

Huff...long post is long.

But damn, Jin is such a unpolished gem of a character, I just hope they can actually use him more in the future and not jusr Ragna this, Ragna that everywhere. I think Ragna is cool, but ASW really likes to shove him in every place they can. BlazBlue has many interesting characters and Jin is one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Lust Sin's Lyrics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:03 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Lust Sin's Lyrics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:10 pm 
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They ruined it....
Really? Forever alone ?

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 Post subject: Re: Lust Sin's Lyrics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:32 pm 
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btw, something I need to know, both Jin and Noel, we all know that thay will hate Terumi for what they did to them... but, they hatred will be in the same level as Ragna? or even more? :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Lust Sin's Lyrics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:07 pm 
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sordragon wrote:
NovaFortuna
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btw, something I need to know, both Jin and Noel, we all know that thay will hate Terumi for what they did to them... but, they hatred will be in the same level as Ragna? or even more? :?:



Hehe, thanks!

Regarding Jin and Noel: I don't think both could hate Terumi as much as Ragna. Since Hazama uses Ragna's hatred as an anchor to stay in the world he has basically made every possible thing to make Ragna hate him and Ragna is a guy easily provoked that jumps to violence and rage quickly, that as well that Terumi has caused almost every bad thing in his life and mocked him for it. He is Kratos angry at Terumi who takes any chance to make the guy angrier and angrier at him.

In Noel's case she was used and deceived and her best friend abused, but it's unlikely for Noel to hate somebody. While Terumi achieved that, Noel despises him but never as much as Ragna, because hate someone is not like her in the first place, just this time he wants to really hurt someone.

Jin also must hate him now, but in his case he didn't even know Terumi and Hazama were the same person due to the memory loss. While he never liked Hazama in the NOL he didn't really hate him and the shock of the Ikaruga setup was gone almost instantly due to Terumi's memory devouring. But now that Terumi has taken Tsubaki and Jin remembered the things Terumi took away he probably is ape**** against him, but those come from early realizations, meaning his hatred hasn't been fueled on porpuse like Ragna or Noel's just a consequence of Terumi's actions. Also I think Jin has never been directly trolled by Terumi like Ragna or Noel either.


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 Post subject: Re: Lust Sin's Lyrics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:34 pm 
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:!: I see, hey we better continue this in Story Discussion right?
as for the lyrics, are really cool I admit! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Lust Sin's Lyrics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Quote:
:!: I see, hey we better continue this in Story Discussion right?
as for the lyrics, are really cool I admit! :mrgreen:


Guess I'll repost this in the story discussion.

And yeah, the lines might be a bit cheesy but the song has some meaning to it and I like that.

Most fans despise Jin because he is an ass and the whole brother thing, but Jin actually has a lot of depth to him or at least if you look at him there is something more. For starters we know next to nothing of his background from his own point of view. Everything related to his past has been told from Ragna, Noel or Tsubaki. So we know how those three felt about Jin but we don't really know what are Jin's own feelings and thoughts. Ragna isn't that fond of Jin so it's not unlikely his memories potray him as a parasite in his life, for example, but what did Jin truly feel in the church, why was he clingy towards Ragna?

Now most people won't even bother to ask that, being a certainly flawed character backfires for Jin, with guys like Ragna and Hakumen around. They are badasses, they are always right, they display how cool they are, which is great, but since Jin doesn't do the same and shows big problems he is frowned upon.

But that's what makes him interesting to me, he is a character that has actual depth, troubles, he is growing, he is showing differences, he realizes he was mistaken and moves on. We have a huge puzzle with him: he was a crybaby, then turned into a cold prodigy in duodecim, then he was a kind (yet distant) and responsible student in the academy and a leader as the president of the student council, but then is a psychopatic broken warrior. How do you fit all that? What happened to him? How did he change and what will happen? I find that much more interesting than being a good fighter or showing off badass moves.


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 Post subject: Re: Lust Sin's Lyrics
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:31 am 
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lol forever alone

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 Post subject: Re: Lust Sin's Lyrics
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:58 pm 
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I like how it's written from jin's perspective... Are all of the songs written that way?


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