(5A)•5A > 5B/2B > 3C> GF
•5A > 5B/2B > 3C > 5B > 4D
•5A > 5B/2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Ender
•5A > 5B > SB > 5C/2C > AC
•5A > 5B/2B > 3C > 5C > 6A > AC > 2D (RC/TG only)
•5A > 5B/2B > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 2B > 6B > 2C > B/Egadget
(2A)•air CH 2A > 5C/2C > AC > Ender
•air CH 2A > 5C/2C > AC > 6C > j.2C > 5B > 4D (Near but Facing Away from Corner)
•air CH 2A > 5C/2C > AC > AC whiff > 2B/6B > 2C > AC > j.C whiff > j.2C > GF/2D
•air CH 2A > 5C/2C > AC > AC whiff > MTW > TB > 5C/2C > AC (Can add 5C/2C>AC at the end with proper timing on TB)
(5C)•5C > 3C > GF
•5C > 6A > 2C > AC > B/Egadget
•5C > 6A > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > B/Egadget
•5C > 6A > 3C > 5C > 6A > AC > B/Egadget (RC/TG only)
•5C > 6A > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 2B/6B > 2C > AC > B/Egadget (Magnetized only)
(CH 5C)•CH 5C > 2D
•CH 5C > SB > 5C/2C > AC > B/Egadget
•CH 5C > 6C > AC> B/Egadget
•CH 5C > 6C > AC> j.C whiff > j.B > 5C > AC > B/Egadget/2D (BA, RG, JI [Hard], LI, TG, RC, AR, HK only)
•CH 5C > 6C > AC> Walk B Sledge > 2B(C) > AC > B/Egadget/2D (LI, NO, TS[Hard] only)
•air CH 5C > AC > B/Egadget
•air CH 5C > B Sledge > 5C/2C > AC > B/Egadget
•air CH 5C > delay 6A > AC > B/Egadget
•air CH 5C > AC > AC whiff > 2B/6B > 2C > AC > B/Egadget (Magnetized Only)
(Crouching Opponent)•5A > 5B > 5C > A Sledge > 2A > 2B > 3C > GF
•2A > 5C > 6A > A Sledgex2 > 5A > 5B > 3C > GF
•2A > 2B > 5B > 5C > A Sledge > 2A > 2B > 3C
•2A > 5C > 6A > A Sledge > 2A > 2C > AC
•6B > 6C > AC > E/Bgadget
(Spark Bolt)•SB > 5C/2C > AC > Ender
•SB > 5C/2C > AC > AC whiff > 2B/6B > 2C > AC
(Normal Throw)•B+C > SB > AC > Ender
•B+C > SB > 6B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > GF
•B+C > 2D > 2B > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > AC (Corner)
•B+C > AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > AC > 4D > 22D
(Back Throw)•4B+C > j.2C > 2B > 2C > AC > Ender (RG, NO, TK, TG, AR, BA, LA, HZ, MU, PL, JI, VK only)
•4B+C > 6B > 2C > AC > Ender (JI, TS, PL, VK [walk a step after throw] only)
•4B+C > *5C > 6A > 2C > AC > Ender (*5C only for LI, MK, HK)
•4B+C > j.2C > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > Ender (RC only)
•4B+C > 6C > j.2C > 4D (Corner)
•4B+C > 5C > 2D (Corner)
•4B+C > j.2C > 5C > 2D (Corner, RC Only)
•4B+C > AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > *GF (Magnetized Only; *Can replace with Ender)
•4B+C > 2C > AC > AC whiff > *(6B)2C > AC > 4D whiff > 4D (*6B not needed with VK, RC, AR, BA, TG)
(Air Throw)•j.B+C > j.2C > 2B > 2C > AC > Ender
•j.B+C > j.C > 5C > 6A > AC > Ender
•j.B+C > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > GF
•j.B+C > j.C > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 6B> AC > 4D whiff > GF
(Atomic Collider)•AC > j.C whiff > j.2C > GF [2202]
•AC > B Sledge > GF [2202]
•AC > Walk 6C > 5D [2252]
•AC > Walk 6C > j.D [2262]
•AC > 2D [2234]
•AC > AC whiff > MTW > TB (Magnetized only) [6117]
•AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > AC > B/Egadget [3043]
•AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > AC > j.C whiff > j.2C > B/Egadget [3043]
•AC > AC whiff > 6C > j.2C > 2B > 2C > AC > j.C whiff > j.2C [3298]
(360A/B)•360A/B > A Sledge > GF (CA, BA, PL, HK, AR only)
•360A/B > 2B > SB > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > GF
•360A/B > 2B > 2C > AC > Ender (NO, TK, LI, LA, TG; Works on magnetized VK, TS, HZ)
•360A/B > 2B > AC > Ender (RG, JI, MU, LI, MK only)
•360A/B > 5B > 2B > AC > Ender (TS and HZ only)
•360A/B > 6A > 2C > AC > Ender (RC only)
•360A/B > 2B > GF (JI and TG only)
•360A/B > 5C > RC 5C > AC > 4D whiff > GF (Magnetized RC only)
•360A/B > 2B > AC > 4D whiff > 4D (Magnetized only)
•360A/B > A Sledge > 5B > 4D
•360A/B > *2B > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > 4D (*2B not needed after 360B with TG, RC, VK)
•360A/B > 2C > MTW > 2C > MTW (RC, VK, TG only)
•360A/B > 2C > MTW > 2C > AC > SB > 5C > MTW > 5C > 4D (RC, VK, TG only)
•360A/B > 2B > AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > AC > 5C > SB > MTW > TB (Magnetized RG, RC, TK, LI, BA, CA, HK, PL with opponent in corner only)
•360A/B > 2B > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > AC > SB > MTW > TB (Magnetized JI, NO, TG, LA, TS, HZ, MU, MK, VK only)
•360A/B > 2B > AC > j.D whiff > j.2C > 2B > 2C > AC > SB > MTW > TB (Magnetized AR only)
•360A/B > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 2C > AC > 5C > SB > MTW > TB
(Fatal Counter)•FC 2C > j.2C > 2B > A Sledge > 5C > 6C > j.2C > 5B > 5C > 6A > AC > B Sledge > 3C
•FC 2C > 2C/5C > AC > walk A Sledge > walk 5B > 5C > 6A > AC > Egadget
•FC 2C > 5C > AC > j.C whiff > j.2C > 5B > 5C > *6A > AC > Egadget (*Remove 6A for NO, HK)
•FC 2C > J.2C > 2B > 2C > AC > j.C whiff > j.2C > 2B > A Sledge > 5C > 6A > AC > j.C whiff > lowest j.2C > GF (Doesn't work mid-screen against HK, BA, RC) [4297]
•FC 2C > 5C > 6B > 2C > AC > j.C whiff > J2C > 2B > A Sledge > 5C > 6A > AC > j.C whiff > j.2C > GF (Doesn't work when done close to RC, BA, HK, CA, JI, NO, TG, HZ, LA, TS, AR in corner)
•FC 2C > 5C > 6A > AC > walk forward > j.C > j.2C > 5B > 5C > 6A > AC > j.C > j.2C > GF [4124/45]
•FC 2C > 5C > 6A > *AC > j.C > j.2C > 2B > A Sledge > 5C > 6A > AC > j.C > j.2C > GF (Works on everyone but HK and RC; *Must walk slightly forward before first AC on BA) [4220/49]
•FC 2C > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > *j.C > j.2C > 2B > A Sledge > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > j.C > j.2C > GF (Magnetized Only; **replace with j.D for HK, RC, BA [can walk forward before first AC on Bang]) [4419/58]
•FC 2C > 5C > 6B > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 6C > j.2C > 2B > A Sledge > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > 5D (Magnetized only) [4472]
•FC 2C > J.2C > 2B > 2C > AC > j.C whiff > j.2C > 2B > A Sledge > 5C > 6A > AC > j.C whiff > j.2C > GF (Doesn't work mid-screen against HK, BA, RC) [4297 / 53]
•FC 2C > 2C > AC > SB > 5C > 6C > j.2C > 2B > 2C > AC > B/Egadget
•FC 2C > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 5B > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > B/Egagdet [4117]
•FC 2C > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 6B > A Sledge > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > *B/Egadget (*Can replace with Ender)
•FC 2C > AC > AC whiff > 6C > j.2C > 2B > A Sledge > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > SB > 2C > AC [4311/62]
•FC 2C > *2C > AC > 6C > SB > j.2C > 2B > A Sledge > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC (*Not needed but adds to damage and heat gain) [4252/51]
Enders:
Walk 6C > 5D
Walk 6C > j.D
2D
4D whiff > 4D
4D whiff > GF
Bsledge > GF
Elbow > GF
CH 5A > 5B > 3C > GF 613 11
CH 5A > 2B > 3C > GF 652 11
CH 5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Bgadget 1731 29
CH 5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Walk 6C > 5D 1741 28
CH 5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Walk 6C > j.D 1745 28
CH 5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 2D 1644 24
CH 5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > 4D 1591 22
CH 5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > GF 1585 24
CH 5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > J.C whiff > j.2C > GF 1731 29
CH 5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Bgadget 1808 29
CH 5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Walk 6C > 5D 1822 28
CH 5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Walk 6C > j.D 1826 28
CH 5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 2D 1722 24
CH 5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > 4D 1667 23
CH 5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > GF 1657 25
CH 5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > J.C whiff > j.2C > GF 1808 29
CH 5A > 5B > SB > 5C > AC 1440 17
CH 5A > 5B > SB > 2C > AC 1460 18
CH 5A > 5B > 3C > 5C > 6A > AC > 2D 1652 24 (Only works on Rachel and Tager)
CH 5A > 2B > 3C > 5C > 6A > AC > 2D 1732 24 (Only works on Rachel and Tager)
CH 5A > 2B > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 2B > 6B > 2C > AC > Bgadget 2252 39
5A > 5B > 3C > GF 613 11
5A > 2B > 3C > GF 652 11
5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Bgadget 1731 29
5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Walk 6C > 5D 1741 28
5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Walk 6C > j.D 1745 28
5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 2D 1644 24
5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > 4D 1591 22
5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > GF 1585 24
5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > J.C whiff > j.2C > GF 1731 29
5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Bgadget 1808 29
5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Walk 6C > 5D 1822 28
5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Walk 6C > j.D 1826 28
5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 2D 1722 24
5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > 4D 1667 23
5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > GF 1657 25
5A > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > J.C whiff > j.2C > GF 1808 29
5A > 5B > SB > 5C > AC 1440 17
5A > 5B > SB > 2C > AC 1460 18
5A > 5B > 3C > 5C > 6A > AC > 2D 1652 24 (Only works on Rachel and Tager)
5A > 2B > 3C > 5C > 6A > AC > 2D 1732 24 (Only works on Rachel and Tager)
5A > 2B > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > AC > Bgadget 2252 39
air CH 2A > 5C > AC > Bgadget 1864 21
air CH 2A > 5C > AC > Walk 6C > 5D 1932 20
air CH 2A > 5C > AC > Walk 6C > J.D 1938 20
air CH 2A > 5C > AC > 2D 1784 16
air CH 2A > 5C > AC > 4D whiff > 4D 1704 15
air CH 2A > 5C > AC > 4D whiff > GF 1642 17
air CH 2A > 5C > AC > Egadget 1864 21
air CH 2A > 2C > AC > Bgadget 1894 21
air CH 2A > 2C > AC > Walk 6C > 5D 1962 20
air CH 2A > 2C > AC > Walk 6C > J.D 1968 21
air CH 2A > 2C > AC > 2D 1814 16
air CH 2A > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > 4D 1734 15
air CH 2A > 2C > AC > 4D whiff > GF 1672 17
air CH 2A > 2C > AC > Egadget 1894 21
MechaIronTager wrote:
Combo thread:
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showt...r-Combo-Thread.
Tech trap guide/Gimmick guide:
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showt...de-Compilation Table of Contents
FRAME DATA!
http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/tager.htmlApproaching
As Tager your job is to get close and start an offense and your options are:
•Walking: The normal and safest form of movement for Tager, leaving you with the most defense options.
•Jumping: Fastest but most risky option for getting close with Tager, since Tager only has one jump you can't really do too much to stuff AA's except for the occasional J.2C.
•2D: The middle ground between jumping and walking, the bad thing about 2D is that you have to be in range for it to connect, the good thing is if your opponent blocks it they get magnetized and if they are already magnetized you can 2D from further away to get in.
Close Range
You got in close range! Now we are cooking with gas! Lets light them up!
Lets talk about the things you can do once your in shall we:
•5A: Your fastest poke, generally safe on block, and leads into high/low/throw mix up!
•Its jump cancelable on block so you can actually jump after people who thinks they can mash jump to get away. Say no to that!
•5B/2B your lows: 5B is great for buffering 360/720 since its not jump cancelable and gattlings into 2B, while 2B is safe on block and can also be used for throws and frame traps.
•4D: A safe way to end your pressure and gain easy magnetism, in CS2 its -3 on IB meanng you are safe regardly of your opponent! (unless its Tager churning 720s.)
•6A: This move is used for many things: drawing people in for tick throws and primer breaking is only a couple of things you can do with this move, use sparingly as it lost jump cancel property.
•Throws: 360/720 are your primary choices although regular throw is fine too! man up and throw them!
Long Range
Oh wow you are away from your opponent what to do now?
•Spark bolt is your only long range move either to punish wrecklessness or to gain magnetism so you can Work your way in.
When your opponent is Magnetized you can use 5D to "zone" your opponents since magnetism messes with spacing...learn when you should 5D and where, knowing when to do it can lead to victory or utter defeat.
Defensive
Oh wow you are not the aggressor well have no fear we can talk about what you should do in these situations!
•Blocking: get good at this and fast, block overheads and practice IBing blockstrings, this creates gaps in other wise safe pressure, also makes moves thats hard to punish actually punishable.
•5C: A poke for defense? Yes 5C has a nice large frontal hitbox and used right makes your opponent think before charging in full force on CH it combos into 2D allowing a free in.
•6A: if your opponent is jumping around magnetized then use them to pull them in, in some situations they fly right to the corner...right where you want them.
•2A: Its a situational anti-air use it on poorly spaced jump in's, mess with it in practice to learn its hitbox.
•2C: Primary anti air! risky but effective, land this and you are gonna put on some hurt and gain a lot of heat!
•Atomic Colider: The yomi anti air, Use it on obvious jump in's when you are feeling psychic, keep in mind its not invulnerable on frame 1.
Gadget Finger
As Okizeme goes, Gadget finger is probably the most obvious one of them all due to the length the move takes to perform. In that regard you will probably find quite a few opponents who know how all of the different options out of the mixup and you'd do well to know these options yourself. However with the exception of one case, nothing they do is 100% safe and generally revolves around a nasty game of rock-paper-scissors (Albeit somewhat more complicated). Here are the things they can try and do and what moves of yours beat it:
(Please note that there is a 4 frame gap after they are free to move where all throws you do are purple throws)
They try: Mashing A
It beats: You using collider, 5C or 6A.
You beat it with: Your own A mashing (you have frame advantage), MTW or 360/720, with the added bonus that if you hit them too early with the grabs (and get purple !!s) they can't tech it because it's a throw counter.
They try: Jumping away and using barrier
It beats: Throw attempts of all kinds,
Goes neutral: if you use a normal since it forces them to land. Using gadget finger again will catch them.
You beat it with: Atomic collider, Air throw. MTW RC can lead to its own mixup but MTW on its own very much loses here.
They try: Backdash
It beats: 360B,
Goes neutral: with A mashing, Gadget finger.
You beat it with: Varies on backdash, but held 360s can beat it and a held 720 almost certainly will.
They try: Reversal move (DP, Super or Gold burst)
It beats: everything except blocking and MTW, which beat it unless they can rapid cancel (This is the safest option they have, if they even have it).
They try: Jumping at you and attacking
It beats: Throws,
You beat it with: Mashing A, blocking might let you squeeze a 2C in for big damage.
Gadget finger is a interesting move as it is not affected by proration and you can rapid cancel it allowing you to go for even stronger mix up.
We have a guide on it you should check it out when you get down the basics.
Big Tidbits.
From Manta:
Spark bolt
It comes out fast, wallbounces, adds magnetism, always lets you combo into it and from it, travels at an insane speed and demolishes all non-super projectiles on its way, yet the best use for spark bolt is often not to use it at all. If you're wondering how this makes any sense, think about it. Your opponent can see you have the best projectile ever charged and ready to use in the blink of an eye, they're now forced to respect you from any range, why throw away such a powerful threat just to have it blocked? Use the fear to advance upon your opponent instead like the glacier you are and use spark bolt at some unexpected time instead. Just as a quick reference, the following times are NOT unexpected:
•Immediately after your opponent techs
•Immediately after you tech
•At max range (They can just see it coming)
•After a poke (5D is particularly obvious)
Writing a list of when spark bolt is unexpected would rather defeat the point, so it's up to you to be creative as the situation demands.
B Sledgehammer
Whilst it looks like a heavier version of A sledge and shares its useful projectile guard point, you'll find their purposes to be quite different. This move is functionally little different to CS1, but its interaction with additional attack has been improved slightly (see below). However, in a bid to reduce Tager scrubbiness everywhere I must make this point; what remains true of B Sledge all the way back in CT remains true now...
B Sledgehammer is not a command dash! Do not use it in neutral situations to cover ground as you WILL get punished for it
To clarify, Sledgehammer only has a projectile guard point, any other kind of attack will beat it and with its long recovery and big startup, don't be surprised if you get hit with a fatal counter combo for your recklessness. This move is actually pretty bad in combos too, with very poor P1 and P2 values (70/70) and a repeat proration of 55% so don't expect to gain massive damage from it. This doesn't mean never use it as it does punish reckless projectile use and is advantageous on block. As well as all things that are obviously projectiles (Jin's ice swords, Lambda's drive etc), here are some attacks that Sledge's guard point will protect against even though they don't look like they are projectiles.
•Noel's Bolverk attacks (That yellow muzzle flash you often see)
•Anything Nirvana does
•Tsubaki's DP moves
•Jin's drive moves
•George XIII's electric attack
•Lambda's 5C attack (But none of her other C moves)
•Rachel's 5B and 2B (as of CS2)
Additional Attack
Additional Attack now also has projectile guard, meaning your opponent now cannot simply wait for sledge to end and hit you with a projectile for a free punish since you may or may not do additional attack. This obviously doesn't help you if they have a well ranged non-projectile poke but can catch people off guard if you use this move sparingly. Unlike Sledgehammer, this move has excellent proration values and on counterhit it is possible to follow it up with some pretty big damage. Despite its appearance, it has a deceptively long active time (16 active frames!) which means it sometimes hits opponents that think you've entered the move's recovery.
From your lovely mod:
To do 360s standing you just need to start from a desired direction (usually right or left)
and spin the stick in a 270 degree angle.
You can also do this with 720 as well but you still need to spin the stick in a 360 before doing so.
Meaning you don't have to do a complete 360/720 to get the move out.
XYH can cancel into 720 now which is a good gimmick when your opponent thinks you are open with 50 meter.
It also makes it possible for you to do a near instant 720 on the ground without the crazy buffering.